The Problem With Just Maintaining

Big Dave became small Dave, then big Dave again and now he is the leanest he has ever been - but feels small. The eternal battle of always wanting to be lean and be big... 

Join us this week as Dave jumps back into training with direction and what the plan is moving forward. 

If you want more: https://www.wehackhealth.com/
Book a coaching call here: https://calendly.com/bc-training/bc-discovery-call 

Transcript

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Cold Open And Pre-Workout Panic

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yo, what's up everybody? We're back. It is How Can You Have Podcast with Ben Canning and Dave Kennedy. I almost said your name. I forgot that I was me and not you.

Dave 0:10

What's going on, dude? Uh not much, man. Uh been a busy week. I uh had a flat to South Dakota for a couple days, which uh didn't realize it's it's minus two hours, you know. So it's like, you know, when it's like nine o'clock there, it's really like 11 o'clock, but it's still sunny outside and it was like 100 degrees. And uh the two hours definitely messes me up still. Like I don't I don't I don't get it, you know. It's like just two hours you wouldn't think we'd be a big deal, but uh definitely feeling it this morning. But I I did get up, I did go to Orange Theory this morning, got my workout in. Um, and funny story, so I you know, I I've been kind of low on caffeine as of late, just kind of cutting back a little bit. And I decided to do two scoops of of uh our pre-workout this morning, and I literally thought I was gonna die. I I I was getting really nervous. I was like, oh shit, do I need to go to the hospital? Because like I started getting like a tightness of my chest, like I it's hard to breathe. I I was sweating profusely. Um and then the beta alanine starts kicking in, and I was getting like the pins and needles everywhere, and I'm like, oh, I feel like ass right now. I'm in trouble. And uh it quickly went away within like five minutes, I was fine and uh got a good workout in, but uh I thought I was gonna die today. So good, good thing I'm here today to get the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

It's funny though, like your tolerance level, because obviously at the start we did two scoops, and then you told me you were doing one, and I was like three sometimes, you know. Like I was like, oh well, we're just doing one now then, and then now you're back to two, and I'm like, for fuck's sake, I can't keep up.

Dave 1:27

Yeah, I'm going back to one, trust me. I'm not making that mistake again. I'm going right back down to one uh after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

So anybody who's listening, you can get uh overclocked from hackingyourhouse.com, but just use one scoop if you're not uh if you're not acclimatized to two scoops.

Dave 1:42

Yes. Well, you know, we have the the three, the tri-caffeine blend in there, which is the uh the immediate hit one, uh, which hits you literally almost instantaneously, um, binds your andosine receptors, and then we have the delayed onset. So as the caffeine starts to phase off, the delayed onset caffeine hits your andosine receptors, and then we have the extended, which is you know, after those move off, we have an extension there, so you never have that caffeine crash. It kind of just continues to bind you all day long, which is good. So, but uh definitely don't do two scoops at first.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Uh do not I don't know if you if you saw. So we I obviously had some samples and some um tubs at DEF CON. And I was like off to the side recording podcasts. So me, Dylan, whoever I was recording a podcast with, and then like Thomas and Jen and Tyler and uh Jason and Jeff, the whole crew were like sort of they were the the booth babes that were just like talking about him. So there was loads of interest in it, and somebody came up to him and was like, somebody wants to do a dry scoop to win a t-shirt, and I was like, just make sure that they're okay with like like caffeine and jelly. We don't want anybody fucking themselves up. Turns out they were doing dry scoops of protein. I was like, but like can you imagine doing a full dry scoop of chocolate protein?

Dave 2:50

That's a lot of that's a lot of dust going in, yeah. Yeah, I couldn't imagine that. Did they get the free shirt?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

They got the free shirt, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's on the uh it's on the Instagram. I was like, absolute chaos whenever I'm out in control. I'm over here doing a podcast and you're dry scooping fucking supplements across the across the way.

Dave 3:04

Yep, yep, yep, absolutely. Well, uh, I definitely don't dry scoop. Have no intention of dry scooping. Uh I never have. No, me neither. Never got it.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Not for me. Not for me.

Dave 3:14

And I've I've read some things that it's like not great for you. It's not like it's not like gonna kill you or anything, but it's not great for you. It's like, you know, you want to pack it with with water. That's that's a good idea, or milk or whatever. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Doesn't need a lot, but definitely needs some. Yeah, for sure. Uh

Why A Coach Matters Again

SPEAKER_01 3:28

right. We are gonna talk about your training today because I've been badgering you to get back to training properly. So everybody knows Dave has still been doing his training. I just have not been in control of it, and I've been badgering to get back to it. That's correct. And I tried to say after the launch of Night Beacon, and you said after Black Cat, and now we're after Black Cat, and we are here we are.

Dave 3:48

We here we are, we're we're doing it. We're doing it. And uh, you know, I will say it is it is definitely uh necessary to have a trainer, in my opinion. You know, it's not that I I you know wasn't or that was going off the rails and I was going back to my old habits. I still, you know, maintain my training and things like that, but you know, I'm not really moving up or down. I'm kind of just you know, kind of staying the same. Um, you know, throughout the summer I stayed really lean. I mean, it's the leanest I've ever been. I was at like 207, 206. Uh, and you know, being 6'4, that is really lean.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Um how did you feel? And tell the truth, because I know that a couple of people passed some comments to you and you felt a certain way.

Dave 4:24

Yeah, I felt I felt small. I felt very small. I'm not gonna lie. Like when we were in the gym, I'm like, man, these guys are bigger than me. I need to I need to get up there again. You know, it's like one of those things I was like, man, I feel so so small right now. Um, and that's the thing you go through when you're when you're you know, obviously cutting and and all of that other stuff is like you you you get down to a size you think you want to be, and then you're like, well, this isn't the size that I want to be. I want to you know be able to be bigger and pushing more weight and you know can continue to grow in that progress. And I think you you still, you know, you you you you go you don't go back, but you kind of stay the same, you know, during your cutting. And it's very hard to put on muscle when you're in a cutting phase or you're you know um in the calorie deficit and to keep that keep that poundage off. So I mean, I think I was down to like I want to say like 1900, 1800 calories a day. Um and and I didn't know problem with it, by the way. I'll tell you, like, this cutting phase for me was super simple. Um, you know, didn't think about food, wasn't always like, you know, craving it or thinking about it. And that's such a a divergence from from what it used to be. I remember when I was on my first cut with you, and dude, all I could think about was like, how can I get like four more calories in? What am I gonna eat for my four calories? Because I need those four calories, you know. Like, you know, I'm gonna eat two cheez-its or something, you know, like just just to get those four calories, because I'm I'm starving.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

But uh, I mean I think two cheez-its is definitely at least eight calories. It would have definitely sent you over. Like, it's too many. Too many, too many. But I think, I think to your point, and this is something that is I think often overlooked is just actually being able to maintain. And uh it was it was actually on a group call a couple of months back, Andy Killer Grills, he said, you know, remember that for some of us to be able to maintain is the goal. People who struggle with weight for so long and they struggle with rebinding for so long, like to actually get to the point where they're comfortable to actually maintain that can be the goal for some people. And I do think that there is uh there is wisdom in uh planning and maintenance phase. And I've been able to maintain relatively similar body composition probably since June last year. Um, maybe fluctuation of like 10 pounds here or there, but I've been able to maintain a body composition that that I've been happy with. And it's the first time that I have actually been happy with it. Like I wasn't at the point where I felt like I needed to be leaner or I felt like I needed to be bigger, like I was I wasn't the leanest I've ever been, but I wasn't the biggest I've ever been, and I was okay with it. And like that is a it's a good place to be in. And I think you know, given everything that you've been up to with work and you know, building out Night Beacon and you know, rebuilding the entire company, like to go through a phase where you did maintain and you didn't go back to old habits and old behaviors, it's it's a good sign. It's like you didn't go completely off the rails. It shows that you know the the baseline of habits of training and nutrition were there, but then it is you know, drawing a line to sign and go, okay, right, well, what direction do we want to take this and how do we want to improve and how do we want to move forward? Because although I would be happy to stay as lean and at the size that I am, I also wouldn't be happy not to progress.

Dave 7:19

You know, you know what's interesting about that is um you know, I got I got you know, like I taking over binary has been very stressful um in in in in a good way and in a bad way, in the sense they're just so busy, right? So like my entire days are booked up, right? And I think it's easy for anybody to say, like, I just don't have enough time to get a workout in. And I I would never allow that to be um a solution for me. I I always had to get my workout in. So, you know, if I had to cancel a meeting because someone scheduled it at you know at eight, eight thirty or nine o'clock in the morning and that was my lifting time, I'd cancel the meeting. Like, hey, I'm lifting between nine and ten or you know, twelve to one, whenever I can get in that day, you know, that that's that's my time, you know, for myself. And I think it's very easy for us to let other people I'm not saying this in a negative way, they don't know that my lifting schedule is this or that or whatever, right? You know, um, but it's very easy for people to consume every single minute of every single day um that you have. And if you let them do that, they will continue to do that, which will, you know, ultimately make excuses for you to not not actually go out to the gym. So you have to make, you know, a very conscious effort to say, like, my gym time is not debatable. Um, it's not something that that I'm going to let um you know trip up. And so, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, like when I was first training, you know, like we I think we're trading what, five days a week plus orange theory twice a week. And so I cut that back a little bit. So I'm doing lifting three days a week, um, orange theory twice a week. And that's been really good for me. That's been a really good balance of of where I want to be. But it's funny, I just saw um a memory on Facebook. It was from like two years ago when I was in my bulking phase and you know, I was massive with these, you know, veins popping out. And I'm like, damn, I was big, you know, I'm not that anymore. I need to get back to that, you know, I missed that. So, you know, I definitely uh definitely need to take a look at you know what I'm doing and start to you know bump calories up, bump training up, different training plan. I've been doing the same training plan for the longest time. Um, so you know, just just getting out of my comfort zone again, which is you know, I wouldn't say it's out of my comfort zone, but getting back onto that plan and being able to push push myself again uh in a direction that I want to go. And you you made the comment about um you know people you know hitting a certain point where they're comfortable with where they're at and they're happy with where that's that's that's very noble. Like I I love that that that piece, right? I just like getting big and and then I like getting small again. It's just this constant battle of big Dave and Small Dave going back and forth, you know, like hey, I'm big Dave, I want to be small Dave again. And then small Dave is like, hey, I want to be big Dave again. And so you just kind of go back and forth, and I enjoy that. You know, it's it's a fun exercise, you know, and and it also I think keeps me very um very focused on you know not going back to those those old habits. Like it could be it could be super simple for me just to say today, like this is all I'm gonna do with the rest of my life, and and I'm good with that, right? And and I think that that that's fine. And I think I could do it, but I do think I'd start to slip in one way or the other in some way, shape, or form, right? So mixing it up and changing your routine and you know, doing something different, so it kind of shocks your body and shocks you know what you're doing, I think is a good thing to the system because it just keeps you in a continual habit of always improving yourself and always improving what you're doing and uh always trying to be the best you possibly can. But you know, I will say, you know, being being skinny Dave uh through the summer had had its benefits of taking taking my shirt off at the beach and you know, going out playing, you know, sand volleyball and everything. And you know, just you know, it's funny because uh um we went to I dropped my kid off at college uh the other day, and uh my son was like, Dad, you know, you're in this room with like a hundred dads and you're the biggest dad here. I'm like, yeah, I know. I I already noticed that, trust me. Like, I noticed that, yeah, yeah. No, I already checked all that out. I I know, you know, and uh then I saw this one dude walking down the street with massive. I was like, ah shit, he's got me. Got me. So I need to go back to big Dave again. I need to go back to Big Dave.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

But I think that there's there's there's a point in that as well of like you know, not having to work towards vacation, like being, you know, I I always

Maintenance As A Real Win

SPEAKER_01 11:10

joke, it was like you don't need to get ready if you stay ready. So if you if you put the work in, and I've actually had a couple of conversations with that this week, I've been catching up with everybody, and I think you know, people who are they see themselves far away from the body composition that they want to have, and it it seems like such a long journey, and they will compare themselves, you know, a lot of people compare themselves to Anthony or or even Jason Wilbur, where they're like, yo, I'm not like that. And I'm like, but you need to remember that you know, working with them, we maybe did uh two years in a deficit. Like they they went through the hard struggle, they went through the the suffering for the majority of the part to get to a place where you know they do it one time and they get to that body composition, and then I'm not gonna say it becomes easy, but it definitely becomes you get to a point where it's like you don't need to live in those extremes. So you are a lot more in control. So you can run a surplus that is a certain amount of time, and then when we get to a place where we're not happy with body composition or we're not getting what we need from the surplus, then we can move into a deficit and we can go like up and down. But it's like understanding that you need to go through that process in the first place to get to that place, and it it takes time. Obviously, it depends on how much you have to lose, it's hard work and it's a lot of habits and behaviors to instill. But if you do it right the first time and you get to that place, like it gives you a lot more freedom to play about with it on the other side. So you can be like, right, for the next three, four, five, six months, I do want to be in a surplus, and then you have to overcome the battles of like, what do you mean I'm actively going to get heavier? I've been trying to get lighter my entire life, and then it's the um being in that position whenever you come to the deficit the second time round to understand, and you and I've talked about it a lot. It's like that's when you fully trust the process. It's like the first time wasn't an accident and you're in control because it's like you have that switch where you're like, right, now I'm in a deficit, my calories are lower, and I can fall right back into it.

Dave 12:50

Yeah. And those the you know, it's like the those those years of doing that, I think have have really like regimented me. Like I look forward to getting to the cutting phase. I look forward to getting to the the bulking phase. And I know that's kind of like a misnomer, like I got it's got bad reps, you know, but it's just slight surplus, slight, slight deficit, slight surplus, slight deficits. They're just little changes here and there. And I think, you know, what people fail to realize is like, you know, because let's just say, you know, I'm I'm sitting at 223 right now. Um, and so, you know, when I hit 220, I'm gonna need more calories to go to 225 or 230. Once I'm at 230, you know, if I want to go higher, then I need more calories to get to 2, you know, 40 or 250, if that's where I want to go. And it's the same thing conversely the other way too. It's like, you know, hey, you know, let's just say you're you're sitting at 250 pounds and you want to get down to 200. Well, the calories are gonna incrementally continue to go down because you have less mass that you're moving around. So, you know, when you get down to 230, you're probably gonna have to drop your calories a couple hundred, right? You know, and then you're gonna have to drop another couple hundred calories when you get down to 210. You know, so you know, it's this constant like you know, understanding of balancing, you know, of your body, of the objectives that you want to go and not letting it too get out get out of control. But here's the thing like nobody listening to this podcast, you know, at least not that I know of, um, maybe other than Anthony now, but um is is a bodybuilder, right? You know, like you know, or or is is going to be an IFB pro, you know, that has to, you know, pump a bunch of trend and a bunch of other things to get massive, right? So, you know, the the thing is that you, you know, when you when you talk about a bulk cycle, it's not about putting on as much mass as possible. It's about us putting on as much efficient muscle and yes, a little bit of byproduct of fat as that, so that you can get to your desired goals. You know, when you're in a surplus, it's a perfect um ideal situation for your body because your body's like, well, not you know, I don't have to shave muscle for energy. It hates it hates shaving fat fat because fat's its last you know method of energy that it uses when you're in a starvation period. So you know, you're not shaving muscle off. You're you're you have all the the padding in there to ensure that you know your muscles continue to grow at an optimal level. Um, and yes, you're gonna be adding a little bit of fat as

Lean Bulk Basics For Normal People

Dave 14:55

part of that as a byproduct. But if you keep the calories tight enough, you know, you're really not gonna gain that much fat. You know, so your goal isn't to you know gain 10 pounds in a week or two. Um, your goal is to gain a pound or two maybe a week, um, you know, and and keeping that progress moving up. And same thing, you know, going down, you don't want to drop 10 pounds a week. That's not healthy, uh, and you're gonna burn a ton of muscle mass, you know, as you do it. So, you know, one to two pounds on the other side, you know, as you go down. So these small increments up and down, you know, to get you to where you want to do. And you know, what that does year after year after year is that you know, you could hope to expect to maybe, you know, add five to ten pounds of muscle mass in your bulking cycle, you know. And you obviously you can use exogenous steroids and things like that if you want to increase that. Um, you know, I don't personally recommend that. I think it's an anti-health component there, and you're kind of cutting your life a little short. But, you know, hey, it's each each their own, not judging. Um, but uh, you know, if you expect, you know, let's just say 10 pounds of muscle mass over, you know, a six-month period, um, you know, of uh or five month period of surplus, and you're probably gonna add, you know, 10 to 15, maybe even 20 pounds of fat as part of that, right? And so, you know, every year that you do that, you get 10 pounds heavier in muscle, then you cut that fat off, and maybe you lose a pound or two in muscle in muscle as part of that, but you still are a surplus of eight, you know, muscle, so you look bigger. Um, and you do that year after year after year, and you continue to have a better physique every year that you do that. And you know, I think that's ultimately me my goal is you know, as I get older, you know, I'm 44 now, you know, I want to still be jacked when I'm you know 70. And so if I can continue on this phase, and and I obviously I've talked about this before, I supplement with testosterone. Um I have I have hypogonadasm, so I don't produce a lot of testosterone uh in my bodies, but I keep my my my numbers around 800 to 1000, uh very reasonable. Uh keep I don't take any AIs, uh my estrogen's in check. Um so I'm trying to keep the natural balance of what my body would or should be producing, right? And so as long as I keep my testosterone levels up, I should be able to keep my bone density, my muscle mass, and my cardiovascular um health up as I age, which means I can continue to add muscle mass and bone density and keep my heart good, right? And so, you know, as I get older, I should be bigger. So by the time I'm 50, I should be double the size of what Dave is today, you know, from a muscle mass. Double is my luck. Is my yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I think double, double, yeah, definitely. I mean this one's actually double to be like 400 pounds, but maybe not double, but you know, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

But I think an important note in this, and this is the frustrating part, it's like the the longer you do it, the harder it gets. So, you know, you okay, you maybe in the first year because of newbie gains, you can gain 10 pounds of muscle, but the second year.

Dave 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

And it's understanding that, but I think once you accept that and understand that like those last, you know, the you know, say you're five years in, six years in, whatever, like those pounds, they really make a difference, and it it can be a lot spread out, you know, over your entire body, and it's doing it for the compounding years and years over time. Um, but I think you know, when I was in um I was in Spain with Alan, he was like, This is the best you've ever looked. And I had said that myself, like I thought like this is the best.

Dave 17:52

You told me that too. Yeah, you told me that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

But I I almost said it in shock, but I was like, surely that's the goal. Like, yes, that's that's what we want. It's like we don't want to continue to do this to get worse. So the goal is over time to continue to to get better. Um, the point that you mentioned there of you know, you would be happy, you could stay like this and you could just maintain this, but you do think you would maybe get complacent here or there. I think the the problem lies within that of not really having a direction or not really having something that that you're working towards. So, yes, okay, there is the one side of it that we're doing it for health and we're doing it for longevity. And you know, we we should lift weights and it is good for us and it is healthy. I absolutely agree with that. But sometimes that's not enough. And again, uh working with clients for an extended period of time, always having the next goal in mind so that they, you know, they know a date that they're working towards something, or you know, X amount of time that we're in a deficit or surplus or coming up to an event. And I think that that's potentially the point that that you're making and the point that you're missing in terms of yes, you've been able to maintain, you've been able to do this stuff because it's so ingrained in your daily life now, because you've done it for so long. But it is easy to get complacent because you're not technically working towards something. So I think we need to take it right back to like, right, what what is it that we're working on now? What are we working towards? And then just map that out. And whether we look at it just a surplus, or we look at it in a, you know, if we talk about a year's time frame, when we're back at Black Hat next year, you don't want people to say that you look small, we don't want you to feel small to be like, fucking hell, what the fuck happened from you from last year and you want to be you want to be jacked again. So it's like looking over that longer time horizon

Redefining The Ideal Physique

SPEAKER_01 19:20

and and mapping out all the things that we need to do between now and then to get you there.

Dave 19:24

Well, I also think like there's there's something to be said about like what my idea of a perfect body was versus what it is today. You know, like my idea of a perfect body was you know, someone that had you know visible 3D shoulders with you know big biceps, you know, big quads, small calves, because I I can't get big calves, um, you know, and and and a and a ripped six pack, right? And and to me, what I have actually found that I prefer is not necessarily having a six-pack. For one, I I really can't get a six-pack because of the excess skin I have um from when I was big, Dave. I can get a five-pack. Uh even at you know, at 205, you know, I'm having my that last six one's not showing because of the damn skin, son of a bitch. Um, but uh, but the uh the the five pack was was a nice thing, right? But what I found with that though is I feel really, really small. And I like having a little bit, I mean, I still like seeing visible abs, you know, but I like having a bigger chest. I like having a bigger stomach, um, not a fat stomach, you know, but just a big stomach, you know, that that shows off you know the big body, um, and obviously a big big shoulders that gives you kind of that V taper, a big back. Um, and that's one thing I'm I'm very impressed with. Um, you know, it's probably my my best feature, which I wish was my shoulders, by the way, but um, my best feature is probably my back. My back is just real strong, um, you know, real big wings on the size of my of my things. I I I'm very proud of how I built my backup, but you know, my my interpretation of where I want to be is probably more around the 235 to 240 range, you know, just to put a ballpark on that, right? Um, you know, I don't we we at one point in time, I think I was up to like what 255, you know, um, in my in my bulking phase. And I think that was a little bit too big. I I looked at some pictures there, I was like, man, I was a I was a puffy boy at that time. You know, I was I was getting a little puffy.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

The photos that I have when we it must have it must have been, I don't know, it was that no, it was last year, whenever we did the Cleveland event. And there's a photos of me and you uh and Thomas and Jen in your gym. And at the time, I I felt big, like I felt good. But I looked back at the photos and I was like, whoo, okay. Like, you know, and you can see it in your face, and you're like, I was definitely carrying at least eight to ten extra pounds in my face.

Dave 21:35

So it's like we need this, it's just trying to find the balance. You know, like I looked at there was like a trusted sec, uh they they they released uh something that recorded like a year ago, and uh, and I was definitely in a balking phase at that point in time where I could tell I'm like, oh, I'm looking pretty, pretty, pretty puffy. Pretty puffy is the best way of explaining it. So I think for me, it's like more like the two thirty five, two forty range is gonna be a good, good range for me to get up to. Um and and obviously maintaining the the muscle ratio to fat ratio and things like that, you know. And I was, I you know, I did that fairly well, you know, even when I was in the 250s, um, you know, and I was the strongest I've ever been, by the way. You know, that's when I was hitting 600 pound deadlifts and, you know, things like that. So the the strength was was was incredible. And that's one thing that, you know, I miss a lot of too is I've noticed, you know, my strength has has definitely gone down quite substantially. I'm still hitting 500 pound deadlifts, no problem, you know, for like three to five. That's kind of my barometer. It's like, hey, if I'm really weak, I can only hit like two or one 500 pound. Remember I sent you the video of like I was only doing one, I was like, oh shit. And so then I started like lifting a ton of deadlifts again. And so like I'm back to like five, but you know, it's like uh that's kind of like my barometer of like, hey, I'm good in this range, you know, I can continue to go up if I can, you know, 525, 550, I'd be good at that. I'm not trying to hit one rep maxes anymore. But you know, it's it's that that that nice balance of having feeling big but not having like, you know, that you know I see a lot of these guys that are just you know have these massive arms but they have like this huge gut. You know the gut's just so far out. You know I'm like dude I this doesn't look great man. Like you got to have a balance of that. Like I I want I want both worlds. I want big arms and I want a small gut. You know like that's what I want. You know like if I can figure

Decision Fatigue And Accountability

Dave 23:12

that out I'll get I'll be good.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

But I think the um you know you mentioned there about the importance of of having a coach and I think this is you know I still work with a coach I know that the first time you told I told you that you're like what the fuck but for me it comes down to when life's busy and life's cha chatic and you have everything else going on I think it becomes easy to either negotiate with yourself or not have the capacity to make the decisions for yourself. And I spoke to somebody recently and I think like one of the one of the greatest things a coach can give in in my experience on both being a client and being a coach site is eliminating those decisions that you have to make. So it's like you can you can have a look at yourself and the week can be busy and you know just having a second set of eyes and ears and be like right this is what we're going to do this week. This is what we want in terms of calories this week's maybe going to be busy because travel and X Y and Z but I want you to hit this as as a minimum and I think that that's where it comes into that you know you can you can kid yourself along the way and I actually had a pretty honest conversation with Thomas I don't know if you'll mind me saying but we record an entire podcast at it when we were in in um DEF CON and he's sort of been uh let's say off the wagon for a couple of months and I give him the grace because he had a lot going on but there definitely needs to become the time where we're like fall back into the habit because I've seen it a couple of times where I can now see how you can get to the point where it gets out of control where you would potentially get up to high 200 300 pounds because you just neglect it for that long and it's so easy to look at it on a micro scale and think oh it's only this week but then you're saying it's only this week and maybe it's three months later, four months later five months later and it's like I can see how you would completely spiral out of control if you didn't have someone on the other side being like, right, I've given you the grace for this but now it's time to shut the fuck up and get back home with it.

Dave 24:51

You have to have that type of balance. You have to you know I I would say for for me I'm very lucky because I have a lot of mental discipline um in things that I apply myself to like I I don't they're they're immutable. I'm not I'm not I can't change that it's it's a fact of life for me to where I have to go and get three lifts and if I don't I I beat myself up more than you can possibly imagine internally. So I feel like shit. You know so then I'll go get it done just so I don't have to feel like shit. You know so for me it's it's it's very it's very easy for me to say you know I'm gonna get three in this week and I think that's very reasonable. That's a reasonable expectation. I'm not saying I'm getting seven days in like I used to I'm I'm saying I'm you know dude if you can't do three you're a piece of shit.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

We learned that we learned that lesson seven days is not the one seven days is not the one no no it's not definitely not I was I was I was a dumbass but it's a but I think even with the like you saying that you've been on the same training program for a long period of time again it's a decision thing. Do you know what I mean? It's like it's easy to just go in and do it. You're still ticking the box and and it's being done and I would rather it be done than not be done. Yes.

Dave 25:50

But again I haven't it's not pushing me in any direction you know that I want to go I'm just going through the motions getting the checkbox in you know it's still good for my you know health obviously maintaining my muscles you know things like that but I'm not hitting the desired results that I want to right and then so you know we gotta

Building The Surplus Plan

Dave 26:05

we gotta look at this a little bit differently and and change it up which is why I appreciate the the training piece.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

So I'm I'm back on the wagon um you know I'm gonna start counting calories tomorrow because I can't do it today because I already um you know have already but just to put it in today why start tomorrow yeah I can I can yeah I know I was thinking as I was saying I was like I know he's gonna bet you knew I was gonna call you right so the process for anybody who the process that we're gonna go through and I know you know it is that this week and next week we're just gonna track calories see where they're at see what your body does see how it responds see where your weight is and then we make the adjustment talk to me then about like timeline. So you posted uh I believe this week or last week it must have been last week about entering into the the surplus phase like what's your thought process behind it what's your what's the goal with it are we talking let's get to 230 pounds 235 pounds and then we cut back down like give me the give me your thoughts and I will do the the programming on this side.

Dave 26:59

Yeah I would say less less less less focus on weight right um for me uh you know just see where I want to get to if I get to 235 and I'm like I want to keep pushing you know I want to have that that flexibility you know to see where I'm at right um but I I would say like 235 is is probably a good goal with a you know pound or two a week of gain you know in that in that mark. So you know probably looking at you know 2800 calories or so you obviously are the judge of that so we'll see but um I I would guess probably around that that that that that spot there and then eventually pushing up to like you know 3,000, 3500 eventually, you know, that type of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Hopefully not to the 4000s I can't handle 4000s I guess but even the even through like even getting the 3000 or 3500 it becomes a lot of food. And I think for me if if I talk about my own experience with James like he's been very good at just allowing me to allow me to be busy and make sure that I get the stuff done that I need to do but the the training and the nutrition piece doesn't overtake my entire life because I've I've done that where it's like same three five hundred four thousand calories and it's like it's a full-time job in itself. And not only that it's the impact that it has on everything else that you do. So I think you're the same as me like whenever you consume too much food like the ability to get anything done becomes more difficult because your body's just digesting food and you just don't have the cognitive availability to get stuff done. So it's like understanding that okay yes the the goal is to push calories to push a surplus to push strength and to gain muscle but like you said we're not professional bodybuilders here so we're not doing it you know to present ourselves at a show at any time and we need to make sure that we have the ability to live our life and do the stuff that we need to do on the other side.

Dave 28:34

There's also you know a like an acclimation period of this too because you know like right now I'm used to eating you know 2000 calories or 1800 calories. So to get to 2800 calories you know is is a very big steep curve, right? So obviously we'll have to build up to that because I'm not used to eating 2800 calories and you know what that does to you in the bathroom and uh you know just the the mental tax of having to eat that much amount of food is is is different. But once you you know here's the thing though like once you flip that switch you know that switch starts start starts moving right and and it's a gradual shift it's not an immediate shock and you start to get used to eating more again you get more into the habit of doing that you know more in the habit of trying to increase protein intake um you know I was still getting around you know 220 230 calories 230 grams of protein so obviously probably bumping that up you know to to 260 270 or something like that or 250 um you know and then and then balancing with carbs and fats um you know it's just it's just getting back to that process again that I'm looking forward to and slowly getting up to that you know uh point. You know I I remember you know when I was when I was that big Dave 250 something you know I was I was pounding so many calories and I was eating so much food and uh you know I was I was trying to shortcut it with like you know drinks you know that that you know the the calorie drinks and things like that and yeah mask inner not I can't imagine there was ever a point in your life whenever you were like previous big Dave that you would be having mask canner it's like you were getting mask all of the time and everything that you were doing. So like to actively go to the place where you're like the big it's almost like the like a cement scoop of like powder that goes into the here's the thing by the way you would think like the mass gainers because they're so calorie rich that they would taste incredible all of those mass gainers taste like total ass like they're the worst tasting things.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

I've tried them all by the way and all of the things I remember getting we went through this we went through this same period at the same time and you were like I've got this mask gainer and I think it was the uh animal what no is it not that that you had the animal and I got the the dynamise the dynamic yeah yeah but it was like you got a normal protein tub which is like 30 servings or 40 servants but you got the full size tub and it was like eight servings and I'm like what the fuck?

Dave 30:40

Yeah you had to do eight servings I was like it was like eight scoops and it was like it was like a thick like uh syrupy type of thing and it tasted and it had chunks in it and it tasted like just just awful like I don't know it had like seeds and shit in it. I don't know it was it was not good. So yeah the the mass gangers will not do it that way so what you're saying is we'll not do it that way we'll do it from doing some we're not doing mass gangers one I am going to try a little bit of a spin this time around on the banking of calories. I've never done that before really I I I was never big into the banking of calories because of the discipline aspect of it. You know to me it was like hey you know if I got you know 2000 calories I'm gonna eat I'm gonna eat those 2000 that day and I'm not gonna worry about banking calories. And um you know I probably had done it a couple times where you know hey I go out and have a shit day of pizza and you know drink with the boys or something like that. And so the next day I would you know cut back a bit but I really never focused on banking. So what I'm looking at doing possibly is is is playing around with that a little bit more um just to say like hey maybe I'll have you know high high input high calorie days and then cut it back a little bit which by the way does have some benefit on kind of shocking the system shocking the body um you know things like that so you don't get kind of stagnant in what you're doing. So I kind of want to play with with that a little bit curious on your thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

I mean there's a couple ways we can do it. Like Jen is the the pro when it comes to banking calories like the whole her whole fat loss feel is she permanently banked calories just in case something happened at the weekend and that was the thing that allowed her to have the success that she did because she was still allowed you know she was still able to have her social life and she was still able to go out and I think that that as a you know being able to do it long term is important. I have other had other clients that similar to yourself is like well I have 2000 calories today so I'm going to eat 2000 calories today and you don't need to do math to coordinate okay well I need to eat less because I'm gonna eat more at the weekend. So what we did is we just set them you know slightly lower calories Monday to Friday and then you have slightly higher calories on Saturday and Sunday and it's it's part of the plan. So you're still executing the plan the way it's outlined. It's just outlined slightly different so that you have that freedom and flexibility at the weekend. So I can either you can put you in control of it and you can do the math on it to make sure you hit it across the week or I can just say this is what you have Monday to Friday and this is what you have Saturday and Sunday.

Dave 32:43

Probably do the the secondary option so you just give me full control yeah yeah yeah so you can keep in control yeah keep the control of you

Training Structure And Home Gym

Dave 32:50

which is which is usually the better option here.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

So fair fair um right talk talk to me about training then because we've talked about this about cutting down the time and again I'm in the the point now my sessions are like 45-50 minutes. What I started doing is whenever I'm I'm writing out my training I'm going I went back to pen and paper notebook and uh I'll write what my current body weight is I'll write the start time and I'll write the finish time so I know how long the sessions are taking me in about 40 minutes and I think I actually had a call with James last uh Friday and he was like what about a new training program? I was like I just really fucking like this training program it's gonna continue to be doing it about four months and I'm like I'm happy with this so we're gonna do three sessions and you want them about 45 minutes each?

Dave 33:30

Yep perfect.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Have you bought any new gym equipment that have no update on what the gym looks like in a long time.

Dave 33:37

Although I did I did see this there's a a new piece of uh there it was a chest press machine that I did at uh the Venetian that I really like a lot and it's it's much more superior than my chest press machine at home so I may go and get that chest press machine I'm not gonna lie um so we're we're we're the problem is is like I gotta I gotta fucking disassemble my leg press machine to get the chest press machine out which is going to be a nightmare. So it's like do I really want to deal with having to haul that that son of a bitch out and then haul the other thing out because there's no room I'm gonna get it out. So um yeah I gotta I gotta figure that out. But so I might get a new chest press machine but you know stand by for that one. But everything else is is is very much the same as before. I haven't gone crazy off of that.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

So same same equipment it's funny because uh the way I have the gym set up downstairs was I I liked that there was lots of space in it. Like I like that it wasn't it wasn't too crowded and too chaotic. But I put a a treadmill and I put a rower in and moved everything about by the way having to move a gym around is not fun. I wouldn't recommend don't ever do it this gym now that it's a little bit yeah now now that it's a little bit more crowded I'm like I kind of like this I could maybe fit a couple more things in like I like before I moved it I was like this is it this is the ultimate setup. I don't like this is everything that I need but I'm like well I could definitely add like at least three more pieces of equipment here. Right so we'll do three we'll do three sessions. Anything in particular in terms of like the physical change that you want to work on?

Dave 35:02

Yeah I mean I think um you know I've been pretty pretty uh standard on push pull legs so I'm I'm open to changing that out you know maybe doing full body change that all right all right sounds good yeah I've been I've been just doing push pull legs pretty much every every week um as part of that and um yeah I usually use my orange theory days as kind of like additional ones like so you know like I'll I'll do supplemental stuff like maybe just arms or something like that because I have three separate workouts um that'll do so I kind of flip it on the opposites so like later in the week if I'm doing like legs I'll do you know legs you know on on a on an orange theory day the beginning of the week so it's kind of you know I'm still hitting them twice a week you know um just trying to get it get it out uh in there so um but yeah I'm definitely down for for anything definitely not for anything. Just I'm in full control I'm the puppet master full control you're the puppet master so so if it fails which it's not going to because you it always works with you but if it fails you're the blame. So it's not that's absolutely fair.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

That's cool.

Dave 35:54

So I guess we'll we'll find out uh anybody who sees Dave a black hat next year will know if we've been successful in our in our surplus and our deficit between that and then you know I and I think I want to keep the the surplus going through Vegas um you know so you really hit that hard whenever you felt small you that's where you're at you're like fuck it I'm just gonna ride the wave right three kind of want to be at the gym and be like the smallest dude there you know I'm like yeah I got abs but I feel like a bitch you know it's like you know like I was just like oh god you guys guys arms are pretty did you see the photo that the of me and Anthony that they'll added where he made you smaller as like we can't post that we can't no no I already feel I already feel terrible as is you sons of bitches you know so I mean and and is it's not like I have smaller arm like the arms are are are still big but you know it's just the leanness of of it all so you you look you look much substantially smaller right and and that's what I didn't enjoy. So I'm gonna push the the surplus through Vegas so I'm bigger than you you sons of bitches and then uh then we're gonna go from there.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

So okay fair far anything else that I need to know before I

Airsoft Energy Burn And Trailer Chaos

SPEAKER_01 36:55

start putting this together for you?

Dave 36:56

Oh man I'm good I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

How many hours of airsoft I need to take into consideration?

Dave 37:01

Yeah this is airsoft I just do I just do it once a week though so it's not three times a week like I was doing before so just once a week so that's that's obviously a little bit of additional calories. I usually do those on Saturdays um and uh I'll be going this Saturday again uh we we had uh an airsoft event uh two weekends ago and uh I bought it's it's been a a a shit show for me lately but so I bought this 40 foot trailer that's a camper that I can camp at airsoft events and I figured I could tow with my cyber truck and uh and I can but I only get like a hundred miles range which doesn't work uh so I'd have to demount it go charge for like an hour come back charge it for another hundred miles so I went and bought a truck great um well I I parked my truck at the valet at at Hopkins and I didn't check it I always check it but I was so tired of getting home from Vegas I didn't check it and uh the valet guys must have smashed the shit out of the side of it um hit the hit the side of the car so my brand new truck's got a big ding on the side of it and then I get to the airsoft event and the leveler brakes so I had to disassemble the leveler uh to to move it and then as I'm doing that and I'm driving home the tire blows out so then I have to go pull over the side of the road and change the tire. So it's been it's been an adventure but uh airsoft's definitely still in the mix for sure.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Okay cool. Well I will get working on this over the next couple of days.

Dave 38:19

Sounds good. Well we'll report back and how it goes. I'll start tracking calories today I'll get it in I probably estimate I'm at around maybe about 800 right now. So uh just got done eating some Panda Express, some rice and noodles and some beef and chicken uh and rice and uh and had some protein shakes this morning so probably about 800 calories I want uh a screenshot at the end of your day of your tracked calories today.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

You got it that's how we're starting it that's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna be fully on it everyday updates from now on. Well that's it. I'm in we've had the car we've had the conversation I've been badgering Dave about the call um to get back on things so we've just had it live in the podcast so everybody is as up to date as as we are on it. I'll get this put together and we can talk further about it next week.

Wrap Up And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Sounds good let's do it cool right check us out we hack health on all social social media platforms if you want to have one scoop of pre workout and not to hackingyourhealth.com for pre workout routine and everything in between and we'll catch you next week.

Dave 39:13

See you guys next week thanks let's go